November BV Vote Import


#1

Should these assets be adjusted from current bv on left to new bv values on the right? Make any other suggestions as well if a different bv is appropritate. Example would be AresPrime BV 3 > BV 1.

AresPrime 3 2
ArgusA 5 6
ArgusD 4 3
ArgusE 3 5
ArgusG 4 5
AvarA 3 2
AvatarC 5 6
AvatarPrime 4 3
AwesomeA 4 3
AwesomeB 4 5
BlackLannerE 3 4
BloodAspA 8 7
BloodAspB 7 6
BloodAspC 6 7
BloodAspG 7 8
BushwackerF 4 3
CatapultPrime 3 4
ChevalierG 3 2
ChimeraE 5 4
CorsairE 5 4
CorsairH 4 6
CougarPrime 5 4
DaishiB 10 9
DaishiD 9 10
DaishiE 8 9
DemolisherD 7 6
DemolisherG 7 6
DemolisherPrime 7 5
DonarC 3 1
DonarD 5 4
DonarPrime 6 5
FafnirD 9 10
FafnirF 10 9
HarasserC 5 4
HarasserE 2 1
HarasserF 4 3
HawkmothD 4 3
HawkmothE 3 2
HawkmothG 3 2
HephaestusA 2 3
HephaestusPrime 2 3
HollanderIIC 3 2
HuitzilopochtliB 3 4
LokiG 4 5
LongTomTankA 7 8
LongTomTankB 6 8
LongTomTankPrime 6 8
MadCatD 5 6
MadCatF 6 5
MadCatMKIIB 7 8
MadCatMKIIF 6 5
MadCatMKIIG 6 7
MasakariB 6 7
MasakariC 7 5
MasakariD 6 5
MaulerC 4 5
MaulerG 3 2
MorriguA 6 7
MorriguB 5 6
MorriguC 8 9
MorriguD 7 8
MorriguE 5 7
NovaCatB 5 4
OroF 2 3
OsirisD 3 2
OwensPrime 1 2
PumaF 5 4
RavenB 3 2
RavenF 2 3
RegulatorA 4 3
RegulatorB 3 2
RegulatorPrime 4 3
RiflemanB 3 4
RiflemanD 5 6
RiflemanPrime 3 4
RommelB 5 4
RommelG 5 4
RommelPrime 3 2
ShadowCatB 3 4
ShadowCatF 2 4
ShadowCatG 4 3
SolitaireD 1 2
SparrowhawkA 3 2
ThanatosB 5 6
ThanatosE 5 4
ThanatosG 5 4
ThorA 6 5
VultureA 8 9
VultureB 6 5
VultureF 4 5
VultureG 4 4
VulturePrime 6 5


#2

Evan Reply:
My thoughts on the current BV of assets based on this proposal:

Argus B 5->6
HPPC This mech is exceptionally tanky and delivers a lot of damage really quickly making it a very powerful shoot&twist brawler, along with midrange fire support. It’s definitely a “low” 6, but it seems too good to be put in the 5 bracket.

Catapult Prime is probably okay at 4, but I’d watch it. If the LRM40 overpreforms, maybe raise to a 5?

Chevaliers should be no less than 3 for the sheer survivability of the 35 tons of armor. Even if their gunload is kinda meh in CM, they’re in a similar boat as Argus’ where they take way more firepower to bring down than their weight would suggest.

Cougar E 6->5. It’s a strong asset no doubt, but 6 BV is a lot for such a feast or famine asset. It either does reasonably well (but almost never carries a game on its own), or just dies. To me, that’s indicative that it doesn’t really belong in the 6+ range.

Fafnir D 9->8. To be honest, I don’t think any of the Fafnirs warrant being a 10. They simply face too many challenges in terms of chasis shape to warrant a “This unit is a god of the battlefield” tag. Especially the UAC20+Flamer variant which I feel is one of the weaker ones overall. You have to maneuver a slow, easily spotted, fat block of armor to get within range and then stare at your target while your UACs/Flamers do their thing. Requires a ton of support to make that happen, and you could argue that the (cheaper BV) UAC Atlas does it better by virtue of its hitboxes.

Madcat F Fine as it is. While it’s weaker than the G in its brawler role. This thing is still way too powerful as a whole to entertain dropping to 5. The reason it doesn’t see as much play is because the G is generally a straight upgrade. If anything, keep G on the watchlist.

MKII-B Fine as it is. Remember, it’s a down-armor variant and directly competing with the A. Many players (myself included) think the B is bad because the A exists and does functionally the same thing with more armor, but I respect it does have its fans. Raising the BV of this will just cause a resurgence of As until it’s also raised to bring them back into parity. Redundant variant syndrome at its finest, similar to the Madcat F/G situation.

Morrigu C Fine as is. The lower BV Morrigus definitely need a BV increase, but the 3 PPC one is not only extremely expensive, but it’s also very specialized with long range, high heat and somewhat low overall DPS compared to the others. It’s a strong asset for sure, but by no means a 9BV asset.

Vulture A Fine as is. It’s strong, but it feels well priced right now. Not overpreforming, and not lacking. A strong asset with plenty of counterplay and a prohibitive enough BV to keep it from being spammed. I’m of the opinion that a 9 or 10 BV should be reserved for assets that when you see them in play, you more or less have to drop what you’re doing and focus it immediately or you stand a strong chance of losing. The Vulture A doesn’t quite fit that bill. With that being said…

Thor E 9->8. The 9BV on this asset is a relic of an older gauss/PPC meta. In the current format (especially with the addition of HAGs and buffs to HVACs, outranging its arsenal) there’s a lot more counterplay. The Thor E is an extremely strong piece of equipment for sure, but I feel its effectiveness is comparable to assets like the Madcat A/B which are 8 BV as well.

Novacat C 4->6. This thing is comparable in power with the Madcat D after .90 and should be treated as such.

Solitare E 5->4. In light of the Solitare’s armor redistribution, it’s significantly easier to shoot out their rears as they escape, making it harder for it to consistently kite enemies away without getting its engine shot out.

EDIT:

Daishi F “Beehive” 10->9. Still extremely strong, but the nerfs to ATM lock times give a larger window to poke the Daishi before it can effectively respond.

It’s also worth noting that I don’t think increasing the BV of the LT solves the problem people have with it, but given the threat the asset commands, I think making them an 8 across the board is still a good move. I’ll make a detailed writeup on that asset some other time since it’s a bit more indepth than just a regular BV adjustment.


#3

Invictus Reply

Few quick notes:

Morrigu increases are more for the ultra stable double LAMS, tho the morrigu itself is still stupid good.

Many of the decreases for mechs that look good on paper (Madcat F for instance) are historical. You barely ever see these get taken so it will make them more attractive.

The best stuff that gets used the most MUST be the highest BV regardless of their weight 8-9-10 are NOT only meant for the highest tonnage assets, though below 55 tons i dont see a place for high BV that high.

The LT needs to be high BV, period. It changes the game, one or two more BV is NOT going to keep you from taking one, its just going to make its guards a little bit weaker, which is good in larger games.

Don’t resist BV increases by thinking of drawbacks of the chassis but rather by asking yourself if you would rather take one thing over another in its relevant situation and even other situations.
Then ask yourself, would you still take it at a higher BV? If the answer is yes, then there is no problem with the BV.

Take the vulture A, dual gauss at 60 tons with 360 and high speed, good at everything (i have multiple times gotten top damage with it in a brawl). Its at 8, would i still take it every opportunity at 9? Hell yes I would.


#4

Silvercraft Reply:
If un-listed it then I don’t have any comments about it.

name … old BV … new BV … comments

AresPrime … 3 … 2 … no, clan LRM can be used for limited brawling too
ArgusE … 3 … 5 … maybe compromise 4?
AvatarC … 5 … 6 … no, it is bad Thanny A
AvatarP … 4 … 3 … no, it may have lost electronics but it has 360 torso now
AwesomeA … 4 … 3 … only if AwsomeB stays 4
AwesomeB … 4 … 5 … only if AwesomeA stays 4
BloodAspB … 7 … 6 … no, 6 BV Basp sounds bad idea
BushwackerF … 4 … 3 … no, it is good support mech and can tank nicely too
CorsairH … 4 … 6 … ok, rare correct +2 BV increase
DaishiB … 10 … 9 … no, this is big scary killer
FafnirD …-… 9 … 10 … no, some Fafnirs are (almost) equal to Daishi
HawkmothE … 3 … 2 … no, the only VTOL LRM support
HollanderIIC … 3 … 2 … no, 3 would make this same as Regulator A
HuitB … 3 … 4 … ok, but keep an eye out for this it may even be closer to 5
LongTomTankA … 7 … 8 … ok, but this may not resolve LT problem
LongTomTankB … 6 … 8 … ok, but this may not resolve LT problem
LongTomTankP … 6 … 8 … ok, but this may not resolve LT problem
MadCatD … 5 … 6 … no, HLL into 2xUAC5 did not make it that much better
MasakariC … 7 … 5 … maybe compromise 6?
MasakariD … 6 … 5 … no, 5 BV Masakari is too low
MaulerG … 3 … 2 … no, 2 BV Mauler is too low
MorriguC … 8 … 9 … no, 9 BV is too much for a tank
MorriguE … 5 … 7 … maybe compromise 6?
NovaCatB … 5 … 4 … no, maybe not best out there but still ok
OroF … 2 … 3 … ok, but keep an eye out for this it may even be closer to 4
RegulatorA … 4 … 3 … ok, this would make it same as HollyC
RommelG … 5 … 4 … no, this is a big scary tank
RommelP … 3 … 2 … no, this is a big scary tank
ShadowCatF… 2 … 4 … ok, rare correct +2 BV increase
ThanatosB … 5 … 6 … no, this is not 2 BV better than ThannyE/G
VultureA … 8 … 9 … no, big weapons but realtively low armor
VultureG … 4 … 4 … ok, this 4->4 was here just to see if we read everything? :stuck_out_tongue:

In most cases +/- 2 BV adjustment is too much, unless it is totally new design.
Regulator powers were bit over estimated, my bad.


#5

Vote will take place this weekend or early next week. I will have offical thread up soon. Teamspeak meeting (short) within a few weeks.


#6

Carbonel reply:

AresPrime 3 2: Seems fine
ArgusA 5 6: Interesting mech. Seems fine at either 5 or 6.
ArgusD 4 3: Strong 3 bv asset. Seems fair at four.
ArgusE 3 5: Agreed
ArgusG 4 5: Four is fine.
AvatarC 5 6: Six is fair.
AvatarPrime 4 3: Should stay at four.
AwesomeA 4 3: This awesome’s gunload isn’t fantastic so a lower bv is fair.
AwesomeB 4 5: This is the strongest brawl awesome. I agree with 5 bv.
BlackLannerE 3 4: This is still a 3bv asset. hag 20, 6 er atms and 4 machine guns does not a four bv asset make.
BloodAspA 8 7: Seems fair. I don’t see this blasp often. Hot for sustained fights.
BloodAspB 7 6: This seems reasonable. The lpls need lots of face time while the lbx’s play counter to that.
BloodAspC 6 7: Should stay at six. Strong mech at 6. But not strong enough to warrant a seven.
BloodAspG 7 8: I think eight is high but it doesn’t ruin the playability of the mech. This mech is now really stronk.
BushwackerF 4 3: This is fine. I never see the f anyway.
CatapultPrime 3 4: It’s a stronger lrm asset now with weaker close range weapons. 3 or 4 is fine.
ChevalierG 3 2: BV 2 is pretty low for the armour a chevy gives.
ChimeraE 5 4: This is fine but 3bv seems more appropriate to make chimera worthwhile.
CougarPrime 5 4: No jumpjets means this cougar relies on very careful positioning to make it’s weaponry get the time it needs. 4 bv is fine.
DaishiB 10 9: Widowmaker isn’t that fantastic anyway. 9 seems appropriate.
DaishiD 9 10: This is the strongest 350m brawler in the entire game. It kills faster than pretty much anything else. 10 bv is 100% appropriate for this asset.
DaishiE 8 9: 9bv for the hag40 daishi is very fair as well.
DemolisherD 7 6: I like this bv change because the aecm demo is an interesting asset and I’d like to see it taken more often.
DemolisherG 7 6: This is a very strong 6bv asset. 2x lams and all the brawl weaponry makes for a very strong 6 bv.
DemolisherPrime 7 5: This is really strong for 5 bv but I want to see more demolishers anyway. :smiley:
FafnirD 9 10: I disagree. This isn’t a good enough mech to warrant a 10. Saying this is on par with the Daishi D is silly.
FafnirF 10 9: This is legit. Fafnir isn’t a good enough chassis to warrant 10bv anyway. It needs support or it dies quick.
HarasserC 5 4: Seems fine.
HarasserE 2 1: This is a non-harasser.
HarasserF 4 3: Narc for 3bv is cheap but I agree with this bv change.
HephaestusA 2 3: This seems fine at 2bv for a cheap tagging asset that won’t really be effective in a fight.
HephaestusPrime 2 3: This seems fair for 3bv.
HollanderIIC 3 2: Coolest hollander but 2bv seems fair.
HuitzilopochtliB 3 4: 3clpl and 1 gauss is pretty much a painkiller. 4bv is fair.
LokiG 4 5: Fair.

The section on long toms:
LongTomTankA 7 8: Yes
LongTomTankB 6 8: Yes
LongTomTankPrime 6 8: Yes

I think LTs should be at least a seven but eight seems appropriate. By taking this piece you should be much weaker as far as your supporting assets are concerned. The gameplay that results from waiting around defending or trying to find a way to attack a LT safely is not fun and I think that these BV changes are fair on those basis.

MadCatD 5 6: This seems fair for 6bv. It’s a mad cat.
MadCatF 6 5: Disagree. This is a strong mcat. 5bv is very cheap for the chassis let alone one of the brawling variants.
MadCatMKIIB 7 8: This mk2 is the lower armour uac20 variant. It’s the most fragile mk2 and I think it’s okay at 7.
MadCatMKIIF 6 5: This is fine. I never see this mk2.
MadCatMKIIG 6 7: This is also a fine change.
MasakariB 6 7: 7 seems fair.
MasakariC 7 5: 6 bv. Not 5. The icy hot is a strong brawler without the armour to back it up. That doesn’t mean it deserves a 5bv rating.
MasakariD 6 5: This should stay at 6.
MaulerC 4 5: This should be a strong brawler at 5 bv.
MaulerG 3 2: This is a LOOOOT of armour for 2bv.
MorriguA 6 7: This is a fair change.
MorriguB 5 6: This is fair. Maybe a 7.
MorriguC 8 9: This is not a 9bv asset. It runs sooo hot. 8 is appropriate.
MorriguD 7 8: With the uac10 range buff this seems fair. This morrigu is a monster and now it has another 50m to work with.
MorriguE 5 7: This seems fair.
NovaCatB 5 4: This is a fair change.
OroF 2 3: Seems fine.
OsirisD 3 2: 2bv is a fair price for this.
OwensPrime 1 2: Yes.
PumaF 5 4: This should be at 3 bv because spaghetti weapon groups.
RavenB 3 2: This is a lot of raven for 2bv. I like this.
RavenF 2 3: Seems fair.
RegulatorA 4 3: 3bv is a good price because of the facetime the rac5 requires on such a low armour chassis vs the damage it puts out.
RegulatorB 3 2: Shrug. Seems memey.
RegulatorPrime 4 3: Gauss is strong. 3bv seems low.
RiflemanB 3 4: The addition of lams makes this a good change.
RiflemanD 5 6: The addition of lams makes this a good change.
RiflemanPrime 3 4: The addition of lams makes this a good change.
RommelB 5 4: This is an odd rommel. Seems fair at four bv.
RommelG 5 4: Snipey rommel. I like it at four.
RommelPrime 3 2: This is the cheapest ac20 BV wise. Seems appropriate given it’s backup weapons.
ShadowCatB 3 4: Fair enough.
ShadowCatF 2 4: Yes given the buff this got from giving it the hag30 instead of the uac2s.
ShadowCatG 4 3: There’s a lot of tech for 3bv but I like this change.
SolitaireD 1 2: I’d not pay 2bv for this unless I was filling out a list.
ThanatosB 5 6: Self narc with arrows? 7bv please.
ThanatosE 5 4: 4bv seems pretty fair for this thaaaaany.
ThanatosG 5 4: This seems fair for this thanny as well.
ThorA 6 5: This seams unreasonable. Thor A is one of the two strong brawling Thor’s and it doesn’t seem like a 5bv asset.
VultureA 8 9: Eight is high enough for one of the strongest vultures.
VultureB 6 5: Seems fair but low for the buzzard.
VultureF 4 5: Fair increase for the dsrm6 vulture.
VultureG 4 4: Why not decrease? Tag vulture is interesting but not fantastic.
VulturePrime 6 5: Agree.


#7

Thanks for the feedback. All changes were approved except for the following which we need to discuss. The full council will have a chance to comment on the bv changes at a later time. Reply back here to vote or to discuss.

Check here for the progress and easier to read format.

Final vote to take place no later than 30 December. If no vote is taken BV will default to invictus’ suggestions.

Asset xInvicx’s Suggestions Evans Suggestions Silvercraft Suggestions Carbonel Suggestions Old Values Changed Vote to Change
ArgusB 5 6 5 vote
ArgusD 4 3 4 4 vote
ArgusE 5 5 4 5 3 vote
ArgusG 4 5 4 4 vote
AresPrime 3 2 3 2 3 vote
AvatarC 5 6 5 6 5 vote
AvatarPrime 4 3 4 4 vote
AwesomeB 4 5 4 5 4 vote
BlackLannerE 3 4 3 3 vote
BloodAspC 6 7 6 6 vote
BushwackerF 4 3 4 3 4 vote
CauldronbornPrime 4 4 vote
ChevalierA 2 3 2 vote
ChevalierB 2 3 2 vote
ChevalierC 2 3 2 vote
ChevalierD 2 3 2 vote
ChevalierE 2 3 2 vote
ChevalierF 2 3 2 vote
ChevalierG 3 2 3 3 3 vote
ChevalierPrime 1 3 1 vote
ChimeraE 5 4 3 5 vote
CougarE 6 5 6 vote
DaishiB 10 9 10 9 10 vote
FafnirD 9 10 8 9 9 9 vote
HarasserF 4 3 3 4 vote
HawkmothE 3 2 3 3 vote
HephaestusA 2 3 2 2 vote
HollanderIIC 3 2 3 2 3 vote
LongTomTankA 7 8 8 7 vote
LongTomTankB 6 8 8 6 vote
LongTomTankPrime 6 8 8 6 vote
MadCatMKIIB 7 8 7 7 vote
MadCatD 5 6 5 5 vote
MadCatF 6 5 6 6 vote
MasakariC 7 5 6 7 vote
MasakariD 6 5 6 6 vote
MaulerG 3 2 3 3 vote
MorriguC 8 9 8 8 8 vote
MorriguE 5 7 6 5 vote
NovaCatB 5 4 5 5 vote
NovaCatC 4 6 4 vote
RegulatorA 4 3 3 4 vote
RommelPrime 3 2 3 3 vote
RommelG 5 4 5 5 vote
SolitaireE 5 4 5 vote
ThanatosB 5 6 5 5 vote
ThorE 9 8 9 vote
VultureA 8 9 8 8 8 vote


#8

It is done! A special thanks to Evan, Carbonel, Invictus, SIlvercraft, Proxema, and Marius for being part of the committee. The final results are available in this document. Feel free to vote there if there are any assets you want to suggest a value change. Be sure to put your name at the top then reply here to notify a suggestion. The drop calc has the updated BV values. The next BV work will be when 092 patch drops.